244 - The Northern Ireland Update Episode

Gary:

Hi, I'm Gary, and this is EV Musings, a podcast about renewables, electric vehicles, and things that are interesting to electric vehicle owners. On the show today, we'll be looking at charging in Northern Ireland and how this has changed since we last looked at this a couple of seasons back. Our main topic of discussion today is Northern Ireland.

Back in episode 158, I spoke to Mark McCall from the Electric Vehicle Association Northern Ireland about the woeful state of the charging infrastructure in the country. And at the time, there'd be minimal investment in infrastructure, no new charges have been installed in many years, and cost issues with the DNO and its diamond new site. But since then, things have changed.

And here to bring us all back up to date once again, is Mark McCall.

Mark:

and. We've been around since: 2016

we're in our ninth year. In: 2021

So we're trying to represent drivers in Northern Ireland, EV drivers, promoting their interests and also the transition to electric vehicles.

Gary:

back then, which was January: 2023

Mark:

I had a listen to that podcast earlier in the week just to remind myself, you know, and it is amazing the difference just two years has made. But back then, I guess we were very frustrated. The incumbent network really only had one charge point operator in Northern Ireland at that point.

twork that had been set up in: 2011

So most EV drivers, if you asked, you know, they wanted pay to charge turned on so that we could see other operators come in. I think we had 22 rapid chargers. We started off with around 17 and grown slowly to 22 for the 1.9 million people in Northern Ireland.

Gary:

I remember when we had the discussion and you gave me those figures, kind of, whoa, how are they expected people to get into electric vehicles if that's the case? But I'm hoping that since then things have moved onwards and upwards and hopefully we'll cover that in the discussion today.

Now I want to talk about three different areas. I want to talk about the cars, the vehicles that are available. I want to talk about the charging network and how that's improved.

I also want to talk about what impact and influence the governments or local councils have had. So bearing that in mind, can you just give us a quick two minute overview, a fairly high level view of the current state of EV uptake in Northern Ireland as it stands today?

Mark:

I think uptake is lower here than in Great Britain.

ry electric vehicle sales for: 2023

December, just past December: 2024

5% of all new cars in Northern Ireland was a full battery electric vehicle. So definitely a good direction of travel there.

Gary:

Just so that my listeners know, you are subject to the zero emission vehicle mandate, the same as we are in the mainland, aren't you?

Mark:

ified just towards the end of: 2024

I guess there was a bit of debate in our assembly here, our devolved government assembly, but they did pass it on a bit like wheels probably, I believe, who sort of joined knowing that we're not expected as a region to hit that 28% this year. It's an overall target for the UK. That said, if we hit 23.4% in December, we're not terribly far away from that. So if we can keep pushing forward, then that should be achievable.

Gary:

Absolutely.

Let's talk about the actual vehicles that are available out there. So what EVs are actually selling well in Northern Ireland?

Mark:

Okay. So we don't have access to the SMMT data, but what we do have is our own survey. Every year, we do a survey of EV drivers in Northern Ireland. So that gives us a bit of a snapshot of the most popular vehicles.

t survey, which was September: 2024

So a good sort of selection, if you like, of what you would expect, I guess.

Gary:

Mm-hmm. What's interesting in that is that other than the MG4, there aren't a huge number of Chinese vehicles on that list.

Mark:

No, true. Although we sit on a few bodies, and one of them is an excellent group, the CBI in Northern Ireland holds a CBI working group. Our last meeting was towards the end of last year. And one of the guys that sits in that represents one of the main dealers in Northern Ireland. I'm never saying that the... I think it was the X3i, BMW, was getting hit with the import duty for Chinese vehicles. So some vehicles that you don't even consider are Chinese or are coming from China.

Gary:

BMW are making vehicles in China and shipping them to Northern Ireland?

Mark:

Yep. And paying 20,000 of a tariff, I believe. I think it can be reclaimed back. We're in this position in Northern Ireland where we're half in the UK and half in the EU.

So those tariffs were applying to us, but I think they can claim them back.

Gary:

Now, that's an interesting side thing that I want to look at. Obviously, you mentioned there the border issue, shall we say.

Yeah. What is your sense, or do you have figures for how many vehicles are being brought from the European Union into Southern Ireland and then being driven up north and sold or bought in a foreign place and then just sort of delivered via Southern Ireland?

Mark:

It's not something we've accessed to, Gary, but there has been a lot of consternation over the last few months over this. So our dealers here, and we have two or three dealers who cover most of the brands in Northern Ireland, and talking to them, they're having great difficulty. So cars that normally used to be sourced for Northern Ireland came in through Great Britain generally, and it's more of a type approval issue now. So there's type approval when Brexit happens, these things split off, so there's a type approval for the EU is my understanding and there's a type approval for Great Britain and we're UK but we're Europe and so we need a vehicle over here that has a EU type approval even though we're being supplied from Great Britain and most or all of those vehicles do not have EU type approval anymore so it's led to a lot of issues and the dealers over here can't source their cars the way they used to so that's definitely I don't know whether that's been solved or not but I think you know some of them were telling us it's this really strange position where you know I as an individual could go to Scotland let's say and buy myself a new Audi and bring it home to Northern Ireland and that would be fine but they as an Audi supplier can't source the vehicles over there bring them to Northern Ireland to sell on so it's a bit of a mess to be frank because it then sort of speaks to the whole aspect of cost

Gary:

Now one of the things that's quite obvious over here in the mainland is that there is a need for cheap electric vehicles and there are quite a few coming to you know the mainland UK roads this year now from the list that you've given me a few moments ago there aren't a great many in there that I would consider to be cheap in the big scheme of things on at least not as cheap as some of the ones that are that are on the list to be released sort of this year what's the situation price wise in Northern Ireland in terms of you mentioned tariffs and levies and things like that?

Mark:

Prices to the end consumers should be the same I think our used market over here is possibly slightly more expensive and that's just down to a smaller market and lack of choice but as for new I believe the prices should be brought broadly similar we have a Dacia dealer here so the spring is here or nearly here we have a new BYD dealership opened in the Boucher Road and another one coming so I think BYD in particular have done very well in the first year they've gone from not to I believe three figures and sales for the first year so yeah we are we are getting some cheaper options too.

Gary:

Let's move on to the infrastructure now when we spoke before there was a and as you mentioned at some of the discussions a very limited set of charges in Northern Ireland most of them have been installed and then kind of left to to rot the maintenance wasn't that good etc so just briefly talk about why that actually happened I think you mentioned it sort of the top of the discussion but you want to dig into that in a little bit more detail?

Mark:

Sure so that incumbent operator the one CPO that we had I guess there's a group we would have to say you know we've met them many many times over the years and heard lots of deadlines and lots of things but I don't think they ever hit a single deadline you know they just seem quite disinterested to be frank but the fact that they were running a free network that pretty much meant that other CPUs were not interested in coming in obviously how can you come in and compete with free and even though you know people were ready for a new network from from the outside that definitely made it seem that you couldn't compete but I think it was April 23 they they turned on pay to charge here and pretty much overnight you know that that made a massive difference suddenly the particularly the AC stuff that was being abused where people you know we're not putting a charger in at home if they had a public one down the street they were just going and parking on it you know leaving it there overnight or all weekend in some cases you know we saw some vans and chargers for 48 hours and this kind of thing so deeply frustrating but everything changed probably quite strange you know as a group of EV drivers we were campaigning to turn on pay to charge and leave the free network but I don't want to say it was a free network that was that was pretty useless to the vast majority of EV drivers pay to charge has been turned on so that basically opened up the market to other CPOs so who came in who who sort of seized that opportunity.

So David on our committee does some great work around statistics in this we also work with Zapmap who supply the DFT figures and we try and keep those accurate and we work together at the end of every quarter to try and make sure those are those are good so on David's latest figures I have a breakdown of the top sort of seven CPUs in Northern Ireland by market share and number of DC chargers so that that should hopefully give you some idea so EasyGo have around 24% they got awarded the faster project which last year installed quite a few DC chargers around the province and sort of doubled our network overnight so they have a big presence from that BP Pulse then is rolling out at a hundred locations in Northern Ireland they're maybe halfway into that work that makes them 21% of our DC chargers in Northern Ireland they're all on forecourts and they're using battery chargers so historically we've issues in Northern Ireland on grid capacity and also grid connection chargers when we talk about their work and so they're putting in these sort of their 120 kilowatt hour batteries with with two CCS chargers and both so that allows them to connect behind the meter. Weave then who are a local Belfast based company they have 20% of the chargers here and then we have the sort of Ionity have opened two massive hubs in Northern Ireland this year and at the time the one in Belfast with 11 by 350 kilowatts was the biggest hub on the island of Ireland. ESB have around 8% Maxol you know our fuel four-quart operator they have 5% and Tesla have 5% although this is as of December last year and they've just opened a new charger in Dunganan and plans for a new one at Sprucefield in Lisbon too.

Gary:

And are they Tesla only or are they also open to non Tesla vehicle?

Mark:

So we have up until that we have one location which is the Belfast Service Centre with four chargers and they are Tesla owner only but the new one at Dunganan is for all vehicles and the I think but I believe pretty much anything the open now will be for everyone. They have a move across the road in Belfast to a new site and there's planning in there for I think eight there and planning for I think it's four in Lisbon so yeah I know they've had a hard time finding sites and grid connections and all these things but at last we're seeing those open up too.

Gary:

Do you have figures on sort of the proportion of charges or electric vehicles to charges so you know one charger for every X number of EVs in the country?

Mark:

o the latest figures are July: 2024

Gary:

Where are these installed now because if you look at the UK for it well the mainland a huge portion of the charges are installed in London and then the rest to kind of spread all over the the rest of the country is it similarly Northern Ireland you have a large proportion of Belfast in a small proportion outside or are they quite well distributed?

Mark:

We do have to say the east side of Northern Ireland is definitely well cared for on the west side not so much and the river for the runs north-south in Northern Ireland called the band so we talk about west of the band quite often in this part of the world and some of those more rural counties from Annan to Rhone, Derry, Londonderry would be a feeling that they're certainly underserved and again David's done some work just recently on this and breaking stuff down by county and it's surprising because some of those counties are quite low population wise they don't look possibly as bad when you look at that but if you're driving around or quite often these are tourist areas as well there definitely is a dearth of chargers there so it's something that we were campaigning for and something that we'd like to see a bit more of a spread across the province.

nged in the last two years in: 2022

Gary:

The whole area of queuing is something that for the most part in the mainland we don't have that issue except on peak times like bank holidays and things like that. Although I did see a post from some guy who said I always have to queue every time I charge and when we looked into it it's because he always uses one specific charger in one specific location and it's one of those that's quite well priced so obviously it's very very popular but he now thinks that everybody has to queue everywhere and it's not the case at all.

Mark:

I've been driving battery electric for nine years now and I can't think of the last time that I queued you know I've been all around Scotland and England and Ireland and there are occasions possibly when you have to wait for 10 minutes.

Tesla and Belfast certainly had that experience but in general things are improving every year.

Gary:

Yeah I came back down from my parents up north over the festive period stopped off at a 16 unit Tesla supercharger to the public at Luton every single one of them was occupied and I pulled in opposite and I thought right how long's this gonna be and I literally turned the car off and a charger opened up, some guy pulled out so it was you know less than a minute. Fantastic. Can we talk about pricing for the charges what's a typical now I won't say typical you mentioned for example BP Pulse are out there now in the UK in the mainland here we talk about BP Pulse as being one of the more expensive they're up 80 odd pence a kilowatt hour are they perceived the same way in Northern Ireland?

Mark:

Yes we have a similar probably range here and pricing in AC runs from around 40p to maybe 46p that seems to be an average and DC varies quite a lot there are some companies with off-peak as well so 44p maybe for a slow 50 kilowatt up to 85p those BP Pulse chargers are probably the most expensive at 85p at the moment. Tesla I think is 65p and a 53 off-peak something like that we've have a have a off-peak rate as well and which is 49p and I think an Instavolt we have Instavolt starting to roll out here as well they're in a McDonald's in Carrickfergus so far and I think they've a maybe a 54p off-peak and off the top of my head as well so yeah that's good to see we just talked to an operator last month that showed us some figures around the variable costs they're seeing and it was quite an eye opener and I know you've done a couple of great podcasts on this you know explaining you know I find it strange some people on the forums and things you expect the to pay the same you know at a 160 kilowatt rapid charger in a commercial setting as they pay for their 7 kilowatt at home and they can't understand why it's it's not 30p you know it's like saying my Starbucks coffee should cost me about 4p when I'm out you know so it's a bit of a nonsense and this was a real eye-opener this meeting in December because it showed how variable the costs are and the base kilowatt hour price for this operator and swung on peak for 4 p. m. to 7 p. m. on winter days it was reaching nearing 50p per kilowatt hour they were paying and that's the duos and the tuos the distribution transmission costs that swing about during those times so I don't think there are any CPUs that we know of that are making a profit yet and we hear that the prices of connections particularly in this part of the world and the millions quite often spent and setting up a charger so yes we'd all like to see cheaper prices but I don't think it's realistic just at the moment.

Gary:

I don't know whether you listen to the fully charged show podcasts with Imogen and Ian Johnston from Osprey and he was saying that one of the big prices that's jumped up recently he has a site I forget where it was but he was paying 90 pounds a year standing charge that's gone up to 8,000 pounds a year for that one site and it's things like that that bump the price up. I want to talk about solutions for people who don't have off-street parking I want to know and understand what it is that's now allowed to help them solve that problem now presumably you have companies similar to Chargy for example we're looking to make it easy to do things like pavement charging so what about things like cross curb gullies the curb-o-charge solutions is that something that's allowed in Northern Ireland?

Mark:

Yeah so this has been one of the center points of our lobby I guess over the last two and a half years it's two and a half years ago coming this June that we met with ODS and the gully suppliers Oxfordshire Council and we brought representatives from the Department for Infrastructure here and along that meeting and we had a good meeting about cross pavement so we've really been discussing that for at least two, two and a half years now. Northern Ireland again slightly different local authorities here do not have jurisdiction over roads and pavements like in GB and so it's the Department for Infrastructure one of the departments in our devolved government executive here so you know we see that as advantageous in many ways because you know talking to people like ODS and Kerbocharge and they're having to deal with 370 I think it is unique local authorities in Great Britain whereas here we potentially have one authority to get everything sorted with and get the guidelines published so yes councils will be involved here around planning but I mean that could be covered under permitted development rights or something so yeah we it's almost all three years now that we've been meeting on this and progress has been slow however there was a presentation to the Infrastructure Committee at Stormont in December and DFI officials seemed upbeat about solutions and it feels like a resolution is possible now they talk about even within the existing VARES the regulations that are existing so the quote I have here you know this is one of the things said some local authorities are adopting cable protectors some are adopting engineered solutions like Kerbo we are hopeful that we can within current legislation adopt both through the consent process and the street works license process so the worry was that there was going to have to be primary legislation or something here and you know that would take years through the assembly but that certainly sounds like we found a way maybe to do this through existing regulations so we've asked the department for many years to start some sort of a trial here or at least install something so they haven't as yet but our Northern Ireland housing executive have installed four Kerbo charge units in a depot outside Belfast and they're using those two to charge their own vans currently and but that's given them a good insight into installing them and I think that you know they're keen to roll these out now if we can get DFI to to create the legislation or the or the guidance within the existing legislation.

Gary:

Do you have any concept of how many households that's going to help? In Great Britain the statistic that gets bandied around is that 40% of houses don't have off-street parking now in reality the number of people with cars without off-street parking is down around 33% so if you were to put some sort of sort of gully system for example in Northern Ireland what percentage of potential electric vehicle owners would benefit from that have any data around that?

Mark:

Yeah we do so DFI produced a report a few years ago by the steer group that brought a consultancy in and that report says that Northern Ireland there are around 20% of homes that do not have off-street parking which seems a low number compared to GB I guess we are probably quite rural in Northern Ireland quite spread out and so rural settings you would imagine mostly have off-street parking not always of course but that report also says that urban centres like Belfast that rises to 60% without off-street parking so that goes from 20% to 60% in Belfast so overall in Northern Ireland they're saying 8 out of 10 people should be able to charge at home but in those urban centres maybe much much less so it is an important thing we have the Climate Change Act in Northern Ireland and it has a just transition principle in there as well you know and we feel that it's certainly very unfair currently that someone with a driveway in Northern Ireland is paying maybe 14 or 15p overnight to charge whereas someone in a terrace house is having to go to a public charger and pay 46p and so you know it's the difference of between around seven or eight pounds filling your EV at home to maybe 25 or 26 at a public charger so it's very significant and while the car would charge and gully and etc have a cost associated with them it doesn't seem like it would take long to break even there and then be ahead.

Gary:

Absolutely.

How prominent is workplace charging?

Mark:

hat said according to DFI the: 1000

Gary:

Let's move on to the government has there been any sort of change in the thinking of the government with respect to EVs and public charging?

Mark:

Yes we'd have to say there definitely has been not enough of course but we've gone from I would say apathy to interest now we met the DFI minister towards the end of last year and he certainly has an understanding of the issues he's resource shy probably you know the department not only do not have a budget for this they often don't have the people resources even to try and work on this stuff so they are hamstrung in many ways and we would have to say that our executive needs to get real here you know we as lay people have been knocking on their door for nine years now telling them what's coming and what we need to do and yet it's only recently that you know the government departments have started to set up take notice and realize that there are issues here. Over the last maybe five years there was a particular move to a travel permit where people were to not you know first choice is don't go anywhere second choice is to walk or wheel or cycle the third choice is to get a bus or a train the fourth choice is to get a taxi on and the very final choice is to use your car and goodness knows we need to improve our public transport in Northern Ireland and our active travel offer and part of that Climate Act that I mentioned before I believe it's ten percent of the transport budget for Northern Ireland has to be spent on active travel now so we're in this position we're rightly so we're spending millions now on new greenways and cycle lanes and there's a lot of consultation going on around that at the moment. The problem as we see it is that when you look at DFI's own travel survey 84% of miles traveled in Northern Ireland are by car all the buses and all the trains added together the public transport accounts for 3% of miles traveled walking is 6% so as an outsider and as EV evangelists obviously we were saying well surely the 84% of miles travels is the bit that needs the money spent here you know this isn't an either-or we certainly we want to modal shift where it suits and where people can we want people on the buses and trains we want people to walk, cycle but let's you know what where is the budget for the 84% that we need to transition on to electric vehicles So while there has been no budget for charger rollout or any help with that at all, there has been budget from the department to a new emissions model this year.

And I think we've seen from that that, you know, the amount of money would have to spend on the public transport just to make, you know, to make the needle move basically, it's just not viable. And there now is a realisation within local government here that they're going to have to move on on the EV thing. And the two quotes that we use in a lot of our presentations, the Climate Change Committee said, the full transition to electric vehicles will be one of the most important actions to achieve the UK's net zero target. And then the Sustainability Energy Authority of Ireland, they say, nothing will deliver as much as electric vehicles in terms of direct carbon savings. So I think that's starting to sink in here now. Not sure we're going to see much budget.

The Department for Infrastructure are quite keen in saying that charge point operators have the sole responsibility for the network here. But, you know, as we look to our neighbours in Great Britain and Ireland, all the other governments have a plan and have a budget and we have neither here. So those are certainly things that we need to get underway pretty quickly.

Gary:

And are there any sort of local councils anywhere in Northern Ireland who've kind of said, yeah, we understand that, but we think that we should be helping as well?

Mark:

Councils are in a difficult position and, you know, probably feel for them that they don't have the expertise often here. And this has all been, you know, sort of hoisted upon them out of the blue.

We are in a world now where they're going to have to take some responsibility here. And we see, you know, looking at England, the Levi Fund has funded almost 200 EV officers now. So that's EV specialists and nearly 200 local authorities. Their salary is funded, I believe, and they're given the training and stuff. So we only have 11 councils in Northern Ireland. So we'd love to see some sort of OZ funding coming here for that.

And, you know, putting a specialist in each council and travelling around the UK, you know, visiting places like Dundee that are really, you know, impressive and ask the question there, why is Dundee so fantastic around EVs? Inevitably, it comes down to an individual in the council, you know, somebody who's leading it and somebody who's passionate about it. So I think that would go a long way here if we could have one of those sort of EV champions, if you like, in each council.

Gary:

Will Barron Yeah, we all need a Fraser Crichton, don't we, from Dundee to come in and sort of take everything by the scruff of the neck and go, this is what you need to do. Mark, is there anything you'd like the listeners to know about EVs and infrastructure in Northern Ireland that we haven't actually covered?

Mark:

I think you've covered it well, Gary.

I think that the message, you know, as an organisation, we have swung from metaphorically banging our head against the wall for, you know, the first six or seven years to confirming now that we've well and truly turned the corner. A more positive message, yes, we're here to discuss what the issues are and we have to do that. Lots of places we can improve.

But overall, I mean, there was a time when you really couldn't travel Northern Ireland and be certain you would get home. Now, there are very few areas that don't have some rapid chargers and indeed, we've 11 ultra rapid hubs, you know, hubs with four bays or more. So those are things we just dreamt about a couple of years ago.

So great direction of travel and we just need to keep pushing forward.

Gary:

Mark McCall, fantastic. Great chat. Thanks a lot for your time.

Mark:

Thanks for everything you do, Gary. Thank you.

Gary:

So what are the takeaways from this? Well, things are improving. The rate of change of charger installs in Northern Ireland is very impressive.

Been a huge percentage increase, but as Mark said, 100% increase on a small number is still a small number. And secondly, there are still a ways to go. Charging is getting better out there, but the ratio of chargers to population is still way behind other countries in Great Britain.

Thirdly, the main area of focus needs to be councils providing help and assistance both to EV owners, but also being helped themselves to get the experienced resources they need to implement charging in their areas. This was a great discussion with Mark and I hope to get him back in another two years to see if they've been able to continue this rate of growth. It's time for a cool EV or renewable thing to share with your listeners.

It's time for a cool EV or renewable thing to share with your listeners. Valeria, a Spanish ferry company has launched a plan to create the first green corridor between Spain and Morocco using two 100% electric fast ferries. These ships will run on a sustainable route connecting Tangier and Tarifa with zero emissions and the ability to recharge their batteries quickly at the ports.

Four battery-powered electric propulsion units will provide each of the two catamarans with 16 MW of power and the ships will be able to go the full 18 miles of the journey on electric propulsion and emit no emissions thanks to their 11,500 kWh capacity. That is a ridiculously big battery. During the hour-long layover at each port, the batteries must be completely recharged.

This will be accomplished by adding 8 MWh gross of batteries to the shore power supply in both ports, 5 MWh in Tarifa and 8 MWh in Tangier. These will be fed by shore power 24x7. I hope you enjoyed today's show.

It was put together with the help of Mark McCall. Many thanks to Mark for his time. If you have any thoughts, comments, criticisms or other general messages to pass on to me, I can be reached at info at evmusings.

com. I'm on the socials on bluesky at evmusings. bsky.

social. I'm also on Instagram at evmusings where I post short videos and podcast extracts regularly. Why not follow me there?

Thanks to everyone who supports me through Patreon on a monthly basis and through Ko-fi. com on an ad hoc one. Now, if you enjoyed this episode, why not buy me a coffee?

Go to ko-fi. com slash evmusings and you can do just that. ko-fi.

com slash evmusings. Takes Apple Pay too. Regular listeners will know about my two ebooks, So You've Got Electric and So You've Got Renewable.

The 99p each are equivalent, and you can get them on Amazon. Check out the links in the show notes for more information, as well as a link to my regular EV Musings newsletter and associated articles. Now, I know you're probably driving or walking or jogging now as you listen to this.

If you can remember and you enjoy this episode, drop a review in iTunes, please. Really helps me out. Thanks.

If you've reached this part of the podcast and are still listening, thank you. Why not let me know you've got to this point by messaging me at musingsev. bsky.social with the words, Norniron. Hashtag, if you know, you know. Nothing else.

Thanks as always to my co-founder, Simone. You know, when he was learning to ride the electric unicycles, there were lots of videos he put out where he was falling off, tripping up, or generally being quite amusing for the viewers. But as he's improved, there's been less of this on his channel.

Now I've asked him if he's going to bring some of that stuff back, you know, him falling off. And he told me,

Mark:

Yeah, it's a good question and certainly an area where there is lots of scope for improvement.

Gary:

Bye.